Posts by Rod P

18

Should JW's be trying to convert others to their faith?

by Rod P in

jw
friends

if you think about it, what happens if one of the persons in a marriage gets converted to the jw religion, while the other one chooses not to believe?

or the husband is at work, and the wife gets to meet the jw at the door, has bible studies with them, gets converted, and then the husband wakes up one day and finds he is living with a jw mate.

what happens if a jw couple is out in the field service, and one gets converted to another religion, precisely as a result of doing the kingdom field service work.. in all of these instances, it results in a religiously divided home.

Rod P

Sith,

With respect, that is NOT what 99% of these posts are about. They are about broken marriages and doctrinal issues and behavioral and treatment problems, but that does not necessarily address the question of whether or not they should even have gone out preaching in the first place.

The reason the JW's go door to door, and I know you know this, and so does pretty well everyone else on this forum, is about the New Testament injunction to go forth amongst all nations, kindred, tongues and peoples and preach the good news about the gospel. Therefore, they absolutely believe they are doing the right thing in obeying the Bible.

My question is, that notwithstanding what it says in the Bible, should they be trying to preach and convert in the first place, because of what it leads to- all the heartaches we read about in so many of these posts.

To say they should not be doing this, is like saying the Bible is wrong, and they should stop. To say that they should is to continue generating and perpetuating so much misery and heartache. So the answer to the question is not as obvious as you might think!

I met a Protestant minister once who told me it was wrong to preach to the converted- those who already believe in Jesus Christ. It implies that you look upon them as Not Christian, and so you feel the need to convert them to JC. To them, that is an insult. But it's OK to preach to the Heathen, and those who have never heard of the Gospel. That's different.

How many JW's have been influential in bringing people into their fold from other religions professing belief in J.C.? I would venture to say, probably the majority.

Rod P.

18

Should JW's be trying to convert others to their faith?

by Rod P in

jw
friends

if you think about it, what happens if one of the persons in a marriage gets converted to the jw religion, while the other one chooses not to believe?

or the husband is at work, and the wife gets to meet the jw at the door, has bible studies with them, gets converted, and then the husband wakes up one day and finds he is living with a jw mate.

what happens if a jw couple is out in the field service, and one gets converted to another religion, precisely as a result of doing the kingdom field service work.. in all of these instances, it results in a religiously divided home.

Rod P

If you think about it, what happens if one of the persons in a marriage gets converted to the JW religion, while the other one chooses not to believe? Or the husband is at work, and the wife gets to meet the JW at the door, has bible studies with them, gets converted, and then the husband wakes up one day and finds he is living with a JW mate. What happens if a JW couple is out in the field service, and one gets converted to another religion, precisely as a result of doing the kingdom field service work.

In all of these instances, it results in a religiously divided home. Isn't that right? Shouldn't the JW's be leaving well enough alone? (And the Mormons for that matter? And all those other missionaries from all those other churches who go off to Africa and the Orient to preach and convert?)

What do you think?

Rod P.

53

If you won the Lottery big time, would you be happier?

by Rod P in

jw
friends

how many of us imagine winning the big one, and all our problems in life would be solved.

we could get whatever we wanted without worrying about money, could buy our way out of almost any situation (like the rich folks do), go on any vacation anywhere in the world, dress to the nines on a daily basis, and use our wealth to get others to do our bidding.. money = sex, power, influence, decadent luxury = happiness???.

rod p.

Rod P

Nicholas,

That was very well put.

If we have never won big before, how many of can say we know ourselves enough to know for sure if we would be the same person after we won that we were before we won.

When a gold rush is on, and all the people stampede in to find their fortunes, history tells us that "Gold" changes people. The greed comes out, and we witness the worst of human nature. In the case of lotteries, however, it is not the rush to find gold, but rather the luck of the draw. Once we win, we may discover things about ourselves that we did not know we were capable of. We may suddenly find ourselves in position we had never been before, such as people coming you for advice, and everyone looking up to you as though you really know something, as though Wealth = Wisdom. (I am reminded of Fiddler on the Roof, and the song "If I Were a Rich Man")

Still others believe that when you become wealthy, you become MORE of what you already are, because you lose your inhibitions. Kind of reminiscent of when we get drunk, and all the inhibitions are dropped, and the real personality underneath is revealed (eg. Mean and Argumentative vs. Jovial and Generous to a fault- "A round for the house!"

In Canada we are not taxed on Lottery Winnings, known as Windfalls.If you win $25 Million, it is all tax free. The Lottery Corporation did some research on the lives of a number of winners. They found out that winning all that money did not lead to happiness in most cases. Many were prudent, and just invested it for retirement.For some, they became extremely unhappy and miserable. They had to put up with the media, and all those "worthwhile causes" and real estate salesmen, and other salespeople, and on and on and on. They suddenly found themselves with a whole lot of best friends and buddies they didn't know before, who had all kinds of appeals and expectations, and it was all so relentless. One guy on the news told his story about winning a million, and rued the day he did. He went to the bars and bought beer for the whole bar on many a night. Boy he must have been popular! He also bought a trailer park. Then he ran out of money, and had to mortgage the trailer park. Then he spent all that, and now had a problem with the mortgage, and had to sell everything off. In the end, he was as broke as before he won the lottery. I guess water will find its own level. There are many, many stories like that.

What if you just won enough to take care of all your present problems and needs (including that of your family), and you used it to clean everything up. Now you have a clean slate, but could get on with your life the way it is now, without injecting Wealth into your lifestyle? Do you think that would be better than winning the Big One?

Rod P.

53

If you won the Lottery big time, would you be happier?

by Rod P in

jw
friends

how many of us imagine winning the big one, and all our problems in life would be solved.

we could get whatever we wanted without worrying about money, could buy our way out of almost any situation (like the rich folks do), go on any vacation anywhere in the world, dress to the nines on a daily basis, and use our wealth to get others to do our bidding.. money = sex, power, influence, decadent luxury = happiness???.

rod p.

Rod P

How many of us imagine winning the big one, and all our problems in life would be solved. We could get whatever we wanted without worrying about money, could buy our way out of almost any situation (like the rich folks do), go on any vacation anywhere in the world, dress to the nines on a daily basis, and use our wealth to get others to do our bidding.

Money = Sex, Power, Influence, Decadent Luxury = Happiness???

What do you think?

Rod P.

77

Discussion of Mysticism and Interesting thought by Rudolf Stiener

by frankiespeakin in

jw
friends

i'm in the process of reading stieners "the philosophy of freedom" written toward the end of the 19th century.

it was written in german and the translation into english makes it a little hard for me to understand, but somethings that i do seem(?

) to grasp to me are interesting.. .

Rod P

Hey you guys. Let's not let this thread die on the vine. It's just beginning to get interesting!

Any feedback on Crop Circle (besides Lucy's Pringles)? How about the websites on "Telephone Telepathy" and also "The Sense of Being Stared At"

I am still doing research on the Great Randi>

Rod P.

46

Did you know that it is wrong to play Chess?

by Rod P in

jw
friends

i remember being at a bookstudy one tuesday night.

i had just recently been reinstated, and i was trying hard to believe the stuff the wbts was teaching, as i went back to be reunited with my family.

(this did not mean i had all the doctrinal beliefs straightened out so that i was an "automatic believer" just because of being reinstated.).

Rod P

Trevor,

That's a good one. LOL. Come to think of it, I haven't played Solitaire in a while. I think I'll get out my Solitaire manual and try something kinky or weird. Have to keep things interesting, right.

I was just thinking about a chess analogy. WBTS announces a new truth. (That was their move.) We then expose it on this forum. (Our move). WBTS realizes the error of their ways, and changes the "truth" into something else. (Their 2nd move) We show the inconsistencies on this forum. (Our 2nd move) They then change it back to their original teaching, before there ever was a "new truth" (Their 3rd move). We then expose this run-around for what it is, and remind everyone how it all started, all the changes they went thru, and then back to their original stance. (Check and Checkmate)......Oh well, it was just a thought. I can dream, can't I?

Rod P.

31

Should you keep a marriage together for the sake of the kids?

by Rod P in

jw
friends

testing this thread.

tried three times already, but only get error message.. wow, this time it worked.

here goes.. there are a lot of people who feel very strongly that you should keep a marriage together at all costs for the sake of the kids, since they feel that children need both a mother and a father.

Rod P

Terry,

I appreciated your thoughts. Some real words of wisdom there. Yet I feel a kind of sadness over what might have been or could have been. It strikes me as a relationship of self-sacrifce and pain, rather than fulfillment and love. Perhaps you and your spouse have a pain threshhold far above that of most people. Few could do what you are doing.

In my marriage there was one aspect that was quite painful. There could be no social life. I could not associate with JW's because I was disfellowshipped, while she could not associate with my Mormon friends, because they were of the world, or of a false religion. I tried one of those Sunday night firesides in our home where my Mormon friends came and visited, while we had a guest speaker who was a returned soldier from the Vietnam war. I wanted her to experience that Mormons were not these evil people in the clutches of Satan, and all that. My wife was the perfect hostess, and she did this out of respect to her marriage vows with me, her husband. But it was all very formal, and was more a game of tolerance than of friendship and sharing. Now, you can do without a social life for a period of time, but month after month, and year after year, that is a horse of a different colour. We are not meant to live like that. It's just wrong! We were no longer functioning as a real family, and this meant we weren't any good for each other. The whole relationship was toxic and irresolvable. How is this environment doing any service to the kids and their well-being?

Rod P.

74

Do you think the world will end soon. If so, when?

by Rod P in

predictions for the end of the world have been going on since the time of christ, and in every century since then.

during the past 100 years there have been more predictions for the end of the world than have been made in all the previous centuries combined.

many of these prophesied dates have since come and gone.. people look around and see the possibility of many different natural or man-made disasters by which the end could come.

Rod P

jgant,

Some good thoughts there. In short, "Believing is Seeing!" (instead of the other way around)

Golf,

Sorry, I am not ignoring your question about what books I have read on the subject. The only one that looks familiar on your list is "None Dare Call it Conspiracy". I have not been reading books on this particular topic since the mid-1980's. Since that time, I have moved on to other topics, and in more recent times, have been doing extensive research in preparation for writing a book on Religion Around the World, in History and Present Day (not the title of the book, though, which I have reserved for the release date).

I remember a number of books were titled "Illuminati" and also a few books by Colin Wilson. I still have a number of books in boxes in deep storage, and I may have to go rummaging thru there and get back to you with a bunch of the titles/authors. Suffice it to say though, I have been around the block a few times in this whole area. Including the story on the origin of modern banking and the Rothchilds and the World Bank and the IMF, etc. Oh, and for what it is worth, I have a few books by David Icke, but have serious reservations about him, especially with his credibility and mental health.

Rod P.

36

ATTENTION-------- ALL JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!!!

by minimus in

jw
friends

i have to say that the longer that i stay away from jehovah's witnesses, the easier it is to see that they are so wrong!

so wrong about how they live their life, so wrong about their fundamental belief system, so wrong about how they treat people---whether they are jws or aren't.

for any of you lurker witnesses here, please get off the fence and recognize you were never "in the truth".

Rod P

zen nudist,

Perhaps what you are trying to articulate is the idea that inside each of us we all have our own version of the "truth" and on the highway of life, we all have our individual pathways to God or enlightnment or truth.

The idea of "Knowing" that this organization or that is either true or false may well be a false, or at least illusory notion. There is good and bad,truth and falsity in all religions, IMO. Ever notice that even inside the JW organization, as individual JW's we used to debate amongst ourselves this or that shade of meaning, or interpretation what the Society meant about this or that? Doesn't that tell us, that even when you are being led and spoonfed all of the concepts and doctrines you are expected to believe and adopt in your life, there are still different understandings and interpretations. One can never "KNOW" completely whatever comes from outside oneself, because you are NOT THAT. You can only function as an observer and a listener, and then react internally to it. No two JW's think exactly alike about all that the WBTS teaches, and so in a way, in spite of the Organization, we are all living lives from an individual perspective, albeit thru the coloured lenses of Organization Think.

Rod P.

17

spiritualism

by Ellie in

jw
friends

.

can i just ask, has anyone ever had any bad experience after buying anything from a spiritualist type shop?.

i ask because today i walked past a shop in my town that sells crystals and things and they do tarrot and that kind of thing, i picked up enough courage to go in to have a look and i saw this lovely fairy candle holder, i really liked it but i am a bit afraid to buy it as i guess i've had it drummed in to me that those things are channels for demons.

Rod P

Ellie,

Long after I left JWs I still had those odd spiritual "hiccups". That damn devil was in everything.

Let me share with you my cure. In the city where I resided (Vancouver, British Columbia), there was this neat bookstore, called "Banyen Books". The name "Banyen" represented the banyen tree, which was the tree where Siddhartha sat under and meditated and became the Buddha (Enlightened One).

This bookstore had a reputation that far exceeded it's local influence, for they did mail order, and people came here from all over the province and beyond. When people came to town, it was a special event to visit Banyen Books. Around the store, in various nooks and crannies, were little cushioned seats, where you could find a good book or two, and just sit there and read to your heart's content. In the background you could hear very tranquil music, coming from the ceiling speakers. The peace and serenity kind of washed over you like a shower, and people who came therein would soak this atmosphere up like a sponge. You knew you were in a spiritual place.

On the bookshelves were books on every kind of subject, from all the different religions around the world, both ancient and modern. It included books on every conceivable metaphysical topic, as well as herbal medicine, natural diet and cooking, organic gardening, homesteading, vegetarianism. There also were all kinds of books on faeries and elves and gnomes and angels, as well as cards and artwork that were out of this world. There were many book titles dealing with topics the WBTS preached against.

Towards the front of the store there were all kinds of beautiful crystals dangling from nylon strings, and they could be "moved" and made to bump into each other, and you would hear their gentle tinkling, while the smell of incense wafted thru the air. There was a total atmosphere of peace, and it was beautiful.

Whenever I was feeling internally conflicted, or just plain down, I used to go there to get my "batteries charged", and would leave feeling totally rejuvenated. I loved that place, and the whole notion of the devil and demonism seemed so totally ridiculous and far removed from reality. I knew then, from my own personal experience, that the Watchtower propaganda was exactly that- propaganda. What I had to understand was, I had been brainwashed and programmed about this Satan thing, and now it was time to become "de-programmed". This was the Cure, and I have never looked back since. No regrets and no fears, and no Devil. That was over 30 years ago.

Ellie, you have nothing to fear but fear itself!

All the best in your spiritual quest and your future of discovery that awaits you. You won't be disappointed, and you can leave that Ol' Devil in the garbage pail where he belongs.

Rod P.